Pattern XP mod

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UNZ
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Re: Pattern XP mod

Post by UNZ »

chahur wrote:
UNZ wrote:there seems to be a bug with page up / page down, sometimes they switch around, and page up moves down, page down moves up.
also why does page up / down now move to the end and start of pattern, the old behaviour of moving only on bar was much better imho.
Moving to start and end are what HOME and END should be for.
I can't reproduce the problem, Page up/down move on bars.
Ctrl+PageUp goes to the start and ctrl+PageDown goes to the end.
i can reproduce it anytime, PageUp / Down moves to start and end (same as ctrl+pageUp/down). Also, i just had a crash while playing with the latest version (playing with the new chord expert stuff and randomly hitting home, end, up down etC)

ok here's the problem: the BAR dropdown value was EMPTY (not auto, not a number, but simply empty). Maybe this setting should have a default, or save its state.

but more importantly:
when you set it to Auto: it moves to the end (this is wrong)
when you set it to 1: it moves 1 bar (this is ok, except i dont want to color each bar with the dark highligt!)
when you set it to 4: it moves to the end (this is wrong, it should still move 1 bar.)

in fact it shoud ALWAYS move 1 bar, regardless of what you set in bar because the bar setting should only affect the visuals imho. Or you should provide 2 settings, one for visuals and one for page-up/down behaviour.
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chahur
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Re: Pattern XP mod

Post by chahur »

UNZ wrote:ok here's the problem: the BAR dropdown value was EMPTY (not auto, not a number, but simply empty). Maybe this setting should have a default, or save its state.

but more importantly:
when you set it to Auto: it moves to the end (this is wrong)
when you set it to 1: it moves 1 bar (this is ok, except i dont want to color each bar with the dark highligt!)
when you set it to 4: it moves to the end (this is wrong, it should still move 1 bar.)

in fact it shoud ALWAYS move 1 bar, regardless of what you set in bar because the bar setting should only affect the visuals imho. Or you should provide 2 settings, one for visuals and one for page-up/down behaviour.
I have no idea how the bar dropdown could be empty. It should always be set to auto if no value was selected.
I add some extra checks to be sure this can't append.
The value is saved with the song and read from it.
With the original Pattern XP, pgup/down move 4 bars each time, no matter what the measure is (dark highlight).
I have changed this to move according to the number of bars in a measure.
I can add a parameter to disable this functionnality. But do you want it to work as before (4*bar) or only 1 bar ?
Anyway, I still can't reproduce the problem of moving to the end / beginning of the pattern with Pgup/down.
Would it be that your pattern is only 4 bars long ?
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UNZ
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Re: Pattern XP mod

Post by UNZ »

chahur wrote:
UNZ wrote:ok here's the problem: the BAR dropdown value was EMPTY (not auto, not a number, but simply empty). Maybe this setting should have a default, or save its state.

but more importantly:
when you set it to Auto: it moves to the end (this is wrong)
when you set it to 1: it moves 1 bar (this is ok, except i dont want to color each bar with the dark highligt!)
when you set it to 4: it moves to the end (this is wrong, it should still move 1 bar.)

in fact it shoud ALWAYS move 1 bar, regardless of what you set in bar because the bar setting should only affect the visuals imho. Or you should provide 2 settings, one for visuals and one for page-up/down behaviour.
I have no idea how the bar dropdown could be empty. It should always be set to auto if no value was selected.
I add some extra checks to be sure this can't append.
The value is saved with the song and read from it.
With the original Pattern XP, pgup/down move 4 bars each time, no matter what the measure is (dark highlight).
I have changed this to move according to the number of bars in a measure.
I can add a parameter to disable this functionnality. But do you want it to work as before (4*bar) or only 1 bar ?
Anyway, I still can't reproduce the problem of moving to the end / beginning of the pattern with Pgup/down.
Would it be that your pattern is only 4 bars long ?
EDIT: sorry i mixed up beats and bars! But my point still stands:
EDIT2: i realize buzz never had this feature, but its a no-brainer to add it and i've wanted this for years (and lots of other trackers have it).

1) open buzz
2) add matilde
3) go to pxp
4) set bar to 1, press page-down -> it moves 1 beat (4 ticks): OK
5) set bar to 2, press page-down -> it moves 2 beat (8 ticks): wrong, should be 1 beat (4 ticks)
6) set bar to 4, press page-down -> it moves 4 beat (16 ticks): wrong, should be 1 beat (4 ticks)

what i'm getting at is: it should always move 1 beat (4 ticks) no matter what "Bar" Dropdown is set to, because i don't want the visuals to dictate how much my cursor moves. The best idea would be to have 2 Dropdowns, one for the visual highligting of dark and lighter rows (the current dropdown) and another dropdown to select the "step size" of page-down (lets say in beats or ticks). Right now i have to set it to 1 Bar to get the behaviour i want, but i DON'T want the visuals that go along with it (all beat-rows are dark then, this is not how i want it to look).

The standard PXP in default mode has 4 beat-rows, 1 of which is dark, and 3 of which are light. Lets say i want to move 4 Ticks (1 beat) when you press page-down. You cannot get this behaviour with the mod currently (unless you set BAR to 1, but then the visuals are not how i like it). Adding a second dropdown would create the freedom to decouple visuals from cursor movement.

tl;dr: highlighting and cursor movement should be decoupled and individual settings (with maybe an option to couple them, like currently).
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UNZ
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Re: Pattern XP mod

Post by UNZ »

I have no idea how the bar dropdown could be empty. It should always be set to auto if no value was selected.
maybe its an issue in the non-toolbar version.
btw, i got it to crash again, not sure how, but it happened on buzz exit.
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UNZ
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Re: Pattern XP mod

Post by UNZ »

mute wrote: check out how the home and tab keys work on the original built-in pattern editor...it is way more intuitive than pxp. for example, home once to go back to note column in current track and to the top, home a second time to goto first track. tab, shift tab, etc.
i absolutely HATE this behaviour and cannot understand how anyone would think this is a good idea. please provide an option so that HOME moves to the start and END to the end, and nothing more, just like PXP does it. How can it be intuitive that HOME and END move in two different directions, it simply can't, its braindead sorry. If anything, you need to use another pair of keys to move horizontaly (TWO KEYS THAT ARE NEXT TO EACH OTHER, BECAUSE THATS THE DIRECTION YOU'LL MOVE IN), certainly not the same as keys that go up and down. Personally if i want to move to the note column i use the arrow keys, and the tab key to move trough tracks, much more intuitive, original PXP gets this right (and there was a good reason this got changed from the way the classic one worked, the classic behaviour sucked ass).

This is all just a confusing mess i'd rather disable! i just want vertical movement, no horizontal.
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UNZ
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Re: Pattern XP mod

Post by UNZ »

here's the thing with keyboard shortcuts / controls in buzz:

you cannot just go and change them without providing options, you're messing with muscle memory here that people built up for 15+ years now :) this makes people (especially unz) :twisted:
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chahur
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Re: Pattern XP mod

Post by chahur »

UNZ wrote:here's the thing with keyboard shortcuts / controls in buzz:

you cannot just go and change them without providing options, you're messing with muscle memory here that people built up for 15+ years now :) this makes people (especially unz) :twisted:
Yes Sir, I will provide options :-)
esp81
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Re: Pattern XP mod

Post by esp81 »

I'm getting a 2-3 second lag where the gui freezes up with certain machines when switching between tracks in the pattern editor, it doesn't happen when the chord expert tab is minimized. Is there a way to have it minimized by default?
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chahur
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Re: Pattern XP mod

Post by chahur »

esp81 wrote:I'm getting a 2-3 second lag where the gui freezes up with certain machines when switching between tracks in the pattern editor, it doesn't happen when the chord expert tab is minimized. Is there a way to have it minimized by default?
It should be, it's a bug.
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Klangkulisse
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Re: Pattern XP mod

Post by Klangkulisse »

Thank you for your effort and work.

The chord expert is a nice feature, but it does not work all the time correctly.
For instance:
• the analyzed chord does not show up in the correct row, may be 2, 3 or whatever rows higher or lower – often in a highlighted row
• it shows "unknown" where there is not a chord at all or only a single note
• it points out wrong chords, like notes c2 (in column 0) and c3 (in column 3) are defined as C-min (machine: 4fm2f by MadBrain loaded in polacs vsti)
• it fails to analyze common chords like c minor: g4 (column 0), d#4 (column 1), c4 (column 2) – may be, because it is in downward order?

Using latest buzz with my own theme – default theme makes no difference.

I can imagine (can I?) how complicated that feature must be – but keep on going!
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chahur
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Re: Pattern XP mod

Post by chahur »

Added :
- Parameters "Disable PgUp/Down enhancement" and "Disable Home enhancement"
Bugfix :
- save activation of Chord expert
- Chord Expert refresh optimised
mridlen
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Re: Pattern XP mod

Post by mridlen »

This chord expert feature is awesome! After 15 years of working with music, you'd think I'd have all the inversions memorized, but truthfully I do not. With interval support, I think this could be the next killer feature.
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chahur
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Re: Pattern XP mod

Post by chahur »

mridlen wrote:This chord expert feature is awesome! After 15 years of working with music, you'd think I'd have all the inversions memorized, but truthfully I do not. With interval support, I think this could be the next killer feature.
Thanks, it the very beginning of what I would like to do with chords. As it's my way of writing music (I start with chords), I have some ideas to improve my composition process...
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chahur
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Re: Pattern XP mod

Post by chahur »

Added
- Chord expert : select the chord to insert with a dialog. Chords are displayed depending on the distance from the current chord.

The dialog is displayed when the button "Insert Chord" is pressed and no base note is set.
Then, the available chords are shown in a dialog according to the last known chord of the pattern.
This is to help selecting a chord close to the current one.

If there is no chord yet in the pattern, all available chords are shown.
mute
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Re: Pattern XP mod

Post by mute »

UNZ wrote:
mute wrote: check out how the home and tab keys work on the original built-in pattern editor...it is way more intuitive than pxp. for example, home once to go back to note column in current track and to the top, home a second time to goto first track. tab, shift tab, etc.
i absolutely HATE this behaviour and cannot understand how anyone would think this is a good idea. please provide an option so that HOME moves to the start and END to the end, and nothing more, just like PXP does it. How can it be intuitive that HOME and END move in two different directions, it simply can't, its braindead sorry. If anything, you need to use another pair of keys to move horizontaly (TWO KEYS THAT ARE NEXT TO EACH OTHER, BECAUSE THATS THE DIRECTION YOU'LL MOVE IN), certainly not the same as keys that go up and down. Personally if i want to move to the note column i use the arrow keys, and the tab key to move trough tracks, much more intuitive, original PXP gets this right (and there was a good reason this got changed from the way the classic one worked, the classic behaviour sucked ass).

This is all just a confusing mess i'd rather disable! i just want vertical movement, no horizontal.
ah, i missed this gem somehow.

1 ok, fuck you too. you're braindead and i don't respect your opinion nor your understanding of navigation.
2 it was duplicating page up / page down (vertical)
3 he didn't exactly get it right, it should go home (left) first press..home (up) second press...then all the way home on third press (like ctrl-home in a text editor).
4 no one asked you to use it
5 don't care what you do personally or what you think is intuitive (I HAS EDIT MEANNESS)
6 yes, preferences are always key


P.S: i love you unz <3
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UNZ
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Re: Pattern XP mod

Post by UNZ »

it does NOT duplicate the page up page down keys, since those move in bars and not in whole patterns (to start and end). and what i want is adjustable step size for the page up and down. and i still stand by my word: you dug up something from the grave of buzz there that would have been better forgotten for all eternity.
mute
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Re: Pattern XP mod

Post by mute »

There were ZERO methods for returning the cursor all the way home in PXP (dont even try to mention alt-kill-myself-tabbing..might as well glue 2 mice to my hands). That = BROKE. Difference between page up and page down? Hold down the button for more than a second. Besides, you jumped off the bridge based on something that wasn't implemented exactly as envisioned...and your step based page up/down preference has nothing to do with this..thats a seperate thing entirely.

Open any other editor of any kind in the friggin' world and press home. omgs. horizontal...but that's besides the point. It was supposed be contextual.
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UNZ
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Re: Pattern XP mod

Post by UNZ »

true but look at most keyboards: home and end are above each other, not next to each other (which is it's own kind of stupidity...). But irregardless of this, double-binding the same key to do 2 actions, in different directions, is just not intuitive. Yes text editors jump to the start and end of the line, but they don't ALSO move vertically (and if they did it would be the first thing i'd switch off).
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UNZ
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Re: Pattern XP mod

Post by UNZ »

mute wrote:There were ZERO methods for returning the cursor all the way home in PXP
this is not true, make a pattern that has MORE THAN 4 beats (say length 16). Use Home and End on it, then use Page Up / Page Down on it.
What you will discover is that HOME / END will indeed move to the start and end, while Page Up / Page Down move 1 bar down or up.

now who is confused ?

and this will become important once you have a step size for page up / page down, for when you have smaller steps than 1 bar.
mute
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Re: Pattern XP mod

Post by mute »

you are... add more than one track and go to the last track, to the point track 1 is off screen even. now try to quickly go back to track 1. you can't. the alternative is holding the mouse key down forever and a day or the make-your-mind-melt awkwardness of shift-tab (mouse isn't an option here because there isn't a horizontal scroll bar.. and even if there was i think we can all agree on "F the mouse"). Horrendous. And theres all kinds of intuitiveness about correct contextual home navigation. its not like its a new or unknown thing in the world of windows software or trackers. however, to make things easier ctrl-home alone probably would have sufficed...or perhaps i should've provided some psuedo-code.
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