Best delay with Jeskola Groove / Swing?

[sparschaeler]

Hi all

I've been trying to figure out which delay effect adapts to a swing groove created with Jeskola Groove 1. It should be able to do reverse and pingpong. Any ideas?

Thanks

[sparschaeler]

no one?

[thOke]

many tempo-synced vst delays here:

http://freemusicsoftware.org/category/f ... ts-2/delay

EDIT: hm ... buzz delays are tempo-synced, too ... but that does not necessarily mean, they do react to jeskola groove 1.
actually i can't think of one that does atm.

[sparschaeler]

the problem is a quite simple one. it involves some basic math.

say we have a 120 bpm pattern with a 57% shuffle. that means every straigth 16 deviates by 7% 'to the right' from its natural position halfway between the odd ones.
As one beat's length is 500ms, the distance between two odd 16ths is 250ms and the 'natural' position of the straight 16th would be at 125, 375, etc.
However, when shuffled, the pattern is different:
1st 16th: at 0
2nd: at 142.5
3rd at 250
4th at 392.5
5th at 500

and so on.

If the delay time is a straight number of 16ths, there is no problem. regardless of where you start, you will end up in the rhythm, at 250ms.

However, if you choose 3 16ths, the length of the delay hinges on where it starts. If you start on an odd 16th, the initial delay will be 392.5ms, and the second one 357.5ms.
Adding them up gives 750ms, 3 times a 8th.

So it's just about the initial delay. And that initial delay should be triggered in accordance to the sound position / whether a tick's count is straight or odd. Is that possible?

Of course there are workarounds, e.g. with 2 delays and predelay. combo does a nice job. but still - is that feasible as a machine?

[thOke]

unwieldy delay 2 has a 'clear buffer' parameter that might help to eliminate unwanted delays on certain ticks ?!

[Shro0m]

unwieldy delay 2 has a 'clear buffer' parameter that might help to eliminate unwanted delays on certain ticks ?!

I would too say Unwieldy series. (I personally use v3).

[vacuum]

buzz delay:
right-click HD combo delay to calculate (suffle) shuffle beat.

I never tried it but maybe it works very good.

[sparschaeler]

hey! remember that one - I used it a lot before groove1 existed. however, now it doesn't make much sense because swing is no longer (explicitly) between two bpm values, but thanks

I found a way around it, by means of predelay....

[rav]

Hi, i was searching a way, how to do non global groove also.
I found Hoester GrooveBox is very good for this purpose. You can choose groove mode, triplets, trigger, etc. ComboDelay with predalay is pretty neat idea, it works very similar to GrooveBox in comparsion. This methods are tricky and for long samples it works like chopping.
There is a machine called IX Get It Swing, you can build 32 steps groove, but unfortunately it works only globally and have some bugs. Would be great to have groove machine with assign option like in others peer machines ;]

[sparschäler]

well... I revisited the combodelay hint from vacuum. first calculate the two bpms, but then it's fine.

how to calculate the two bpms:

a classical swing/shuffle shifts the timing of notes - usually every second 1/16th. speaking with Jeskola Groove, a param value of 0 returns even 1/16ths at exactly half the distance between the neighbouring 1/16ths. a param value of 7f (128) shifts the odd 1/16ths to 75% of the distance between the neighbouring 1/16ths.

example: say, at speed 120bpm, the distance between the first and the third 1/16th is 60'000/120/2 = 250 milliseconds. At 0 swing, the 2nd 1/16th comes at 125ms. at 128 swing, it comes at 0.75*250ms = 187.5ms

To calculate the two bpms, keep in mind that now the distance between the 1st and the 2n 1/16 is 187.5ms and the distance from the 2nd to the 3rd is 250-187.5 = 62.5ms

Those two values are equivalent to the 1/16th values of the two bpm settings we need.

When a 1/16th measures 187.5 ms, a 1/4th is 750ms, which gives a bpm of 80.
The same calculation with a value of 62.5ms gives a bpm of 240.