About Swing/Groove

[sleepzzz]

Hello. I was wondering what are some tricks for getting swing in trackers using Rows per Beat in the pattern properties? I don't want a global swing like using the few groove machines, I just want something I can use on one single machine (like hats). I've been using 6 and 12 rows per beat, but I want something more funky. Are there any tips about placement of notes, etc? Numbers of rows? Anything about LPB that will make a change?
I don't know much about it. Renoise has that simple Delay Column which makes a difference, and I think Unwieldy Tracker and Sample Grid have something similar, but not quite the same? Anyway, in general, I would like to know more about writing swing in trackers without resorting to global groove machines. Old tracking tips, etc.

Thank you.

[vacuum]

Hi,
In case you put this in Matilde tracker:

• ... .. .. .. .. OF F0
  ... .. .. .. .. .. ..
  C-4 01 .. .. .. ED 0F
  ... .. .. .. .. .. ..
  ... .. .. .. .. .. ..
  ... .. .. .. .. .. ..
  C-4 01 .. .. .. ED 0F
  ... .. .. .. .. .. ..
  ... .. .. .. .. .. ..
  ... .. .. .. .. .. ..
  C-4 01 .. .. .. ED 0F
  ... .. .. .. .. .. ..
  ... .. .. .. .. .. ..
  ... .. .. .. .. .. ..
  C-4 01 .. .. .. ED 0F
  ... .. .. .. .. .. ..

You would have a delay of (+/-) 1/16 to 15/16 of a tick when changing
from OF 10 to OF F0. ( so OF would give you contol over the delay within one tick over the whole track
for the whole song)
(each track can have it's own OF XX subdivision btw. , and/but it also affects pitch effects par example.. hmm)

..also a bit of limitation is that if you would use (for example) OF 08
in combination with anything higher than ED 07.. it doesn't work.
..and that's why.. omg why do I explain ..

[elekt]

For a buffer-based swing, which works for percussion best, try using Hoester's GrooveBox.

[mute]

If you just want a normal shuffle just delay the upbeat, typically by half ... in mtrk I think it'd be ED 03.. so I would do

C-4 .. .. .. ..
.. .. ..
C-4 .. .. ED 03
.. .. ..
etc.

PVST delay has its own column and the values are different than mtrk, but just as easy. But, if you want easy mode in pvst there is also a 'shuffle' under the delay global command 08. see http://xlutop.com/buzz/ .. for a typical shuffle it'd be something like 08 1380 (e.g... every third tick, shuffle by 50%)

[vacuum]

.. or use matilde's multi-out and route another track to a delay with wet-only and no feedback.

[nathansnider]

Is there any reason you'd prefer not to use Matilde's auto-shuffle effect?

It's just 13 XY, where (copying form the help file):

x - Ticks to shuffle. 2 shuffles every other step, 3 every third step and so on.
y=Shuffle amount. 0=none, F=almost a full tick. change the subdivision amount to, say, 10 for greater precision.

You only need it on the first line of a pattern (or on whichever beat you want to start the swing on). If you're at 4 lines/beat, you can try, say, 13 26 on the first line of a pattern, and you'll get a pretty decent swing. 13 24 is subtler; 13 28 is harder, basically a subset of what you'd get at 6 lines/beat.

Lowering the tick subdivision can also be useful at times. At 4 lines/beat, 0F 03 along with 13 4F gives you a perfect triplet. (the fourth tick is simply ignored). Of course, that's basically the same as using 3 lines/beat, but the advantage is that you can use it to get triplets in one track and an un-swung 4/4 in another, all within the same pattern.

[vacuum]

@ nathansnider

.. it didn't pop up in my mind.
I don't use shuffle much.

Thanks for the advise on the triplets !
I used to do triplets with ED XX and thinking hard how it was done every time.

[sleepzzz]

Thank you all for the information! I've often mostly used Unwieldy Tracker and Sample Grid, so I didn't know Matilde Tracker could do shuffling or delaying, Vacuum. I will try next time I get started. I appreciate the responses and effort. I didn't know I could do such triplets, nathansnider.

Can I apply Hoester's Groovebox to one chain? Is that what you're meaning?

When I do Hip Hop I just want a simple swing. Lately I've been wanting to make more funky swinging minimal Techno, so these infos will help me try that.

[vacuum]

But, if you want easy mode in pvst there is also a 'shuffle' under the delay global command 08. see http://xlutop.com/buzz/ .. for a typical shuffle it'd be something like 08 1380 (e.g... every third tick, shuffle by 50%)

.. and Polac's "internal midi" machine can send notes to Polac's "midi bus II", and then send notes to any buzz generator you want.
.. so it's Polac who wins the price, imo, in automatic delay of notes, without typing a delay for every single note.

(besides that you can load every buzz generator in polac's VSTi, I remember, but I don't know if there are pro's or con's in either case)

[sleepzzz]

I did not know that about the Polac machines. Mind is now blown! Thanks!

[Grids]

Another trick is to make your own simple loop - record it. (don't make the bpm too fast)

Load the loop into your tracker of choice....at the half way of the loop point type in the correct offset...Then pitch each sample down a bit...

e.g. in U tracker

0000 .... B-3 01
-
-
-
-
-
-
8000 .... B-3 01
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

Then pitch each half down slightly...e.g. a semitone

This creates some interesting 'future-garage style' swing....that's slightly offbeat....Play around with the detuning/ offset amounts.....