Will Buzz ever go commercial/get updated?

mosis
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Re: Will Buzz ever go commercial/get updated?

Post by mosis »

I never really understood Pattern XP - over on the Renoise forum, somebody posted this - is it correct?
Well, Pattern XP... I was excited when I first heard about it, seemed like a brillant feature addition, but *sigh* ...

Unfortunately this is a feature which has been implemented in a completely wrong way. Already the extra window with a checkbox tree is awkward, there should have been up/down arrows in the top row showing the machine names and (just as in Renoise) plus/minus buttons to display/hide parameter columns. But the main flaw is that it doesn't show the contents of other machine's own patterns at the current song position, as one would expect (like it can be arranged in Buzé), but instead it offers to combine multiple machines in one pattern. May seem not that different on first sight. But then these patterns have exactly the structure we want to get rid of in Renoise. In sequencer view the information which machines occur in a particular pattern is obscured. Using this feature makes things even worse than in Renoise, because several patterns playing alongside each other can have access to the same machine, and the notes coming from different patterns at the same time will cancel their competitors out or cut each other off. As the setup which machines are used can even change in every single pattern, this whole concept has a tremendous potential for confusion.

It just contradicts the original song structure model of Buzz, which we mentioned here again and again being the one to go after for Renoise. It's a pity. The way it actually should have been done is to offer a zoomed-in sequence view, where the actual content of each pattern is visible (as suggested in "Zoomable pattern editor" thread here). This would also show what happens beyond pattern borders, a very nice touch in Renoise.
http://forum.renoise.com/index.php?/top ... e__st__400


I just look at the success that FL Studio has had, they must be making millions of pounds a year in profit - if Oskari could dedicate more time to Buzz, he could turn it into something incredible, like FL Studio is, only better (i.e. not 'like' FL Studio in terms of how it works, as successful as FL Studio is).

esp81
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Re: Will Buzz ever go commercial/get updated?

Post by esp81 »

FL Studio is only so popular because it's the most easily cracked and torrented DAW...I'd be willing to bet over half its user base didn't actually purchase it. Buzz has been free since around 1998 and was actually last updated just a few months ago.

ags
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Re: Will Buzz ever go commercial/get updated?

Post by ags »


mosis
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Re: Will Buzz ever go commercial/get updated?

Post by mosis »

esp81 wrote:FL Studio is only so popular because it's the most easily cracked and torrented DAW...I'd be willing to bet over half its user base didn't actually purchase it. Buzz has been free since around 1998 and was actually last updated just a few months ago.
That's a circular argument. People wouldn't be using it, cracked or not, if they didn't like using it. What makes you think it's the most easily cracked DAW? It doesn't matter if 90% of its user base didn't purchase it, FL Studio is selling huge numbers every year. Oskari could have a part of that market, it looks like none of the other DAWs (especially Renoise, unfortunately) are going to ever implement a sequence editor like Buzz has. That was a piece of pure genius on Oskari's part (as was all of Buzz) - nothing is as easy to use and as quick to use, as the Buzz Sequence Editor.

I just think if he updates Buzz and works with Polac to integrate VST support, and charges a low price for it, it could become massive - or at least, much more successful than Renoise.

mosis
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Re: Would you pay for commercial Buzz?

Post by mosis »

Klangkulisse wrote:Hoooo! How much for a commercial version – IF OSKARI WOULD WORK MORE ON IT.
Excuse me, but to put it mildly, what a strange view on oskaris work. Besides of the reasonable doubts about "Your averege user", it is:

1. Disrespectful to the whole idea and work, especially to contributers like polac and all the others
2. Disrespectful to oskari: Do you want to purchase the right to "officially" complain about so called missing features.
3. Disrespectful to the whole culture around it: Don't you feel, that it is more than just a DAW

As unz said, you can allways donate ... there is that suggestion of 300 $, so go ahead, I think you will get a very good Buzz 1469!
You're an idiot.
You're making up fantasies of 'disrespect' where there is none. I asked a simple question, it's VERY relevant, seeing as Oskari obviously isn't being paid for updating Buzz, and so hasn't got the time to improve it, fix problems, etc. Making it commercial would (or might) solve those problems.

Where did the ludicrous figures of $300 come from? I was thinking of $20 - $30. If Oskari gets a thousand people to pay that, he can live off that for a year, and work on Buzz for a year. What planet are you on?

As far as you're concerned, Buzz should just stay the way it is, in comparative obscurity, and never amount to anything. Well done.

mosis
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Re: Would you pay for commercial Buzz?

Post by mosis »

mantratronic wrote:
mosis, double07, mridlen: Please remember this is Oskari's now 15 year old baby, and it's really up to him. Other than that, this topic seems to come up every few years and get about the same response in terms of yes and no.
Can you show me where I said it WASN'T up to Oskari? What are you talking about?

So we aren't even allowed to DISCUSS this subject? Why not just shut this forum down then?

My first post is a simple QUESTION, addressed to the USERS of Buzz. Their responses would then give Oskari information which he might find useful, because he might think "There are enough people who will pay me for a commercial version, I will think about this". Rather than just leaving Buzz going nowhere. I understand that Oskari has a job and has to work, just like the rest of us, that's WHY I am asking if people would buy a commercial version, thereby giving Oskari some more money, and thus an incentive to keep working on Buzz. It isn't rocket science. Please stop trying to censor other people's speech.

mosis
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Re: Would you pay for commercial Buzz?

Post by mosis »

Okay - how about this. Wouldn't it be good if Oskari, (together with Polac if necessary), developed a new version of Buzz that had built in VST support, and could (obviously) play samples in the tracker, and that was it. No old Buzz generators or effects, just the interface of Buzz (which is what makes it so amazing), and VST support, and then just improve the look of the interface a little bit (or even get the likes of White Tie to totally redesign it - that alone would surely make Buzz worth $30 to the average computer musician)
http://www.houseofwhitetie.com/reaper/i ... erial.html

He could continue to work on the piano roll, Pattern XP, etc. and add a mixer, and that's about all most people would need. As I said, I watched FL Studio go from almost nothing, as Fruity Loops, over a decade ago, into the multi-million pound seller it is today - and I want Oskari to have that sort of money too, for what he's created. Telling me to donate isn't going to make him a millionaire, is it, whereas bringing out a commercial version of Buzz just might.

Currently I use Renoise because it has things that Buzz hasn't, plus it's more reliable. I only use VSTs, never use Buzz generators when I'm using Buzz, but Renoise's 'pattern matrix' is a prime example of bad interface design, and makes it nigh on impossible to write songs. Whereas in Buzz, because of the Sequence Editor, I can write music more easily than in any other program that exists. Oskari is a genius and created, quite simply, the best interface of any music program ever written. I would like to see Buzz become more popular. I would like a 'solid' version of Buzz that I can use for all my music making.

Again- I realise this is ENTIRELY UP TO OSKARI - I know that. No need to point out the obvious. These are mere suggestions, what Oskari does with them is entirely up to him, I'm just trying to put ideas out there, that's all.

mute
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Re: Would you pay for commercial Buzz?

Post by mute »

You had me at piano roll.

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Joachip
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Re: Will Buzz ever go commercial/get updated?

Post by Joachip »

I actually think a circular argument is kind of okay here, considering how these things (popularity vs. price vs. money earned by the developer) are indeed circular in nature. ;)

The often mentioned piano roll makes me think that perhaps Buzz is not really what you're looking for after all, and the sentence "I really want to use Buzz after trying to use Renoise" also tells me that perhaps you're still looking for the right DAW. And I don't think hoping for Buzz to change into that is realistic.

Instead I'd recommend trying out more different DAWs. You might suddenly find the gold ore. One of my friends had this experience when he tried Ableton. Personally I use Buzz in conjunction with Samplitude, because it offers a lot of the stuff trackers are not good at.

esp81
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Re: Would you pay for commercial Buzz?

Post by esp81 »

Nope I wouldn't pay for it, especially if it didn't have any of the buzz gens or fx...and it already has the best vst support of any DAW.

esp81
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Re: Will Buzz ever go commercial/get updated?

Post by esp81 »

Buzz going commercial is just not going to happen, get over it. lol

mosis
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Re: Will Buzz ever go commercial/get updated?

Post by mosis »

Joachip wrote:I actually think a circular argument is kind of okay here, considering how these things (popularity vs. price vs. money earned by the developer) are indeed circular in nature. ;)

The often mentioned piano roll makes me think that perhaps Buzz is not really what you're looking for after all, and the sentence "I really want to use Buzz after trying to use Renoise" also tells me that perhaps you're still looking for the right DAW. And I don't think hoping for Buzz to change into that is realistic.
LOL. This is like being on the Renoise forum... whenever somebody suggest improvements, often the dumbass reply is "Perhaps you should find a different DAW"...
Joachip wrote: Instead I'd recommend trying out more different DAWs. You might suddenly find the gold ore. One of my friends had this experience when he tried Ableton. Personally I use Buzz in conjunction with Samplitude, because it offers a lot of the stuff trackers are not good at.
I've already tried loads of DAWS. None have the same ease of use as Buzz does. None have a Sequence Editor like Buzz, so they can't compare. You're just making up nonsense, setting up strawman arguments (mindreading, in fact) and knocking them down...

mosis
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Re: Will Buzz ever go commercial/get updated?

Post by mosis »

esp81 wrote:Buzz going commercial is just not going to happen, get over it. lol
Thank you for your well argued input.

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deusdiabolus
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Re: Would you pay for commercial Buzz?

Post by deusdiabolus »

FWIW, I would pay to keep Buzz alive (and have already done so to an extent). I think Buzz deserves more attention, and should be just as popular as Ableton Live, Reaper or Renoise. I'm willing to bet that a Kickstarter project to take Buzz to the next level would succeed with minimal difficulty.

Of course, it's all up to O.T.

esp81
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Re: Will Buzz ever go commercial/get updated?

Post by esp81 »

Are you by any chance "XG2003" on the Renoise forums?

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Re: Will Buzz ever go commercial/get updated?

Post by 4516N41 »

@ Mosis
This might sound a bit stupid but "integrate VST support"? In what way are you not able to use your VSTs as you like?

oskari
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Re: Will Buzz ever go commercial/get updated?

Post by oskari »

4516N41 wrote:@ Mosis
This might sound a bit stupid but "integrate VST support"? In what way are you not able to use your VSTs as you like?
Being able to access vst parameters like buzz machine parameters I think. It could be done by adding a new parameter group where a machine (in this case the polac adapter) can add/remove parameters runtime. It's something that I'll probably implement if I manage to finish the new pattern editor some day.

mosis
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Re: Will Buzz ever go commercial/get updated?

Post by mosis »

4516N41 wrote:@ Mosis
This might sound a bit stupid but "integrate VST support"? In what way are you not able to use your VSTs as you like?
I meant make it so that newbies don't have to intall Polac, make VST support integral to the Buzz code itself, either using Polac 'built in', so to speak, or just a new implementation of built in VST support.

i.e. just as in FL Studio or Renoise, you can load in VSTs without having to install any extra software.

mosis
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Re: Will Buzz ever go commercial/get updated?

Post by mosis »

esp81 wrote:Are you by any chance "XG2003" on the Renoise forums?
Aah, I see... I've just owned you in this thread and so you seek to 'bait and switch'... well done.

mosis
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Re: Would you pay for commercial Buzz?

Post by mosis »

I agree, I think a Kickstarter project would be really successful. Imagine if Oskari got White Tie to design a skin for it too, it would look incredible, and be incredible.
I think it's fine for it to still support all the Buzz machines, ignore what I wrote before about just having VST support, the machines are part of what makes Buzz Buzz.
I'd just like to see Oskari get really rewarded for what he's created, nothing else compares to the speed and ease of use of Buzz.

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