new pvst beta (updated 1-Jun-2021)

River Cricket
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Re: new pvst beta (updated 2-Jul-2020)

Post by River Cricket »

Two issues:

1. When using Polac WDM Kernel Streaming, I'm unable to access all four input channels of my audio interface.

I can select 1+2 or 3+4 in the View > Preferences > Config, but obviously I can't use this to select all four channels at once. :(

2. Polac ASIO works as expected, but I'm getting some really nasty latency when controlling external hardware (about 7000 samples or so at 96k - this doesn't change at different buffer settings, but does change in response to changing the sample rate, so 192k is ~3500 samples of lag, 48k is 14000). Using external hardware to control VSTs is fine, it's only outbound where Polac ASIO seems to hitch up. This might be a recent PVST issue, because I've used Buzz to sequence external gear on projects in the recent-distant past (2018ish) and didn't notice any trouble then. Still on the same computer/OS/interface as then.

Also a question: I know external devices shift around because of the way Windows assigns USB device IDs, but is there some way to make Polac VST (used for controlling external gear) as "intelligent" as Polac MIDI In? Polac MIDI In does occasionally require re-selecting the MIDI device, but it's a simple matter. When Polac VST gets scrambled, however, I've found that selecting device "x" will really be device "y" (because "x" is just a label pointing to device ID "n", and now device ID "n" is device "y"). The only way to get everything lined up properly again is a rescan in Global 2, which for me takes about five minutes and can occasionally crash.

River Cricket
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Re: new pvst beta (updated 2-Jul-2020)

Post by River Cricket »

I've resolved issue #2, insofar as I remembered how the "MIDI device" drop-down works. ASIO is still laggier than WDM, but at least I can compensate for that lag.

Issue #1 is still a bit of a thorn in my side, though, since WDM seems to be working out better for me in most other regards, but only being able to use two input channels is a real downer! Polac ASIO allows access to all four channels, and I can get all four channels in other programs using WDM_KS, so I'm hoping this is maybe just a legacy oversight or something :P

River Cricket
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Re: new pvst beta (updated 2-Jul-2020)

Post by River Cricket »

rav wrote:
Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:06 am
Everything shows, that MIDI Send from VST3 is not working. I have tested 2 free plugins which are working in other DAW. Could someone confirm?
VST3 absolutely sucks for MIDI. Steinberg (who sets the VST2/VST3 standard) has a bug up their butt and is on some weird mission to prove that, actually, VST is for audio, not (wrinkle those noses up nice and tight, folks) ...MIDI... (ugh!), and people using VST to send/receive/relay/manipulate MIDI events are wrong. Basically, the DAW is supposed to convert MIDI to VST-ese, feed that to the plugin, and if the plugin outputs VST-ese, convert that to whatever the DAW's standard is for flinging notes and events around. The problem is that different DAWs do things differently, so it's possible (afaik) to have the exact same MIDI sequence routed in the exact same way result in completely different final songs depending on your DAW and how it handles the precise timing of notes and CCs.

The tl;dr (and I think polac can probably elaborate better than me) is that VST3 is fine for instruments and effects 99% of the time, but really not at the point where it can be reliably used for "peer instruments", which means that, yes, the corporate-funded cutting-edge of the mainstream industry is currently at the level Buzz was at... fifteen? Twenty? years ago. :shock:

I'm not sure if dealing with VST3's inanities is something polac can do completely alone or if it requires Oskari to get involved.

Anyway, for what it's worth, I can confirm it's currently not possible to MIDI send from VST3s in Buzz (though VST3s can receive MIDI). Your best bet is to install the VST2 version of whatever plugin you're using.

rav
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Re: new pvst beta (updated 2-Jul-2020)

Post by rav »

Well, the problem is that there is no other version than VST3. Plugin is called Stochas and there is also a statement about VST version on site:
Why is there no VST2 plugin
Due to Steinberg’s licensing terms, we cannot provide binaries using the VST2 plugin format. As such, only VST3 is available. If you’d like to have a VST2 plugin and have access to the VST2 SDK you can build your own by defining VST2_PATH to point to your SDK when building.
Unfortunately there is gross trend in not making VST2 plugins anymore just like dropping support(=not releasing) for x86 plugins versions.

Stochas is very interesting and complex sequencer with probability, chaining, some polyrhythmic functions, humanization and swing per step... i think that checking VST3 issues in polac adapter just for this plugin is worth it. Or maybe someone can build VST2 version, beacause there are sources for download?

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tinga
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Re: new pvst beta (updated 2-Jul-2020)

Post by tinga »

rav wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 10:04 pm
Or maybe someone can build VST2 version, beacause there are sources for download?
I have a vst2 version, but Stochas is not Magic, Magic is designed for Buzz and has a better ergonomic, and many more options, same thing for Snowglobe's machines, anyway if you want it...

River Cricket
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Re: new pvst beta (updated 2-Jul-2020)

Post by River Cricket »

tinga wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:09 pm
rav wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 10:04 pm
Or maybe someone can build VST2 version, beacause there are sources for download?
I have a vst2 version, but Stochas is not Magic, Magic is designed for Buzz and has a better ergonomic, and many more options, same thing for Snowglobe's machines, anyway if you want it...
The worst part about Stochas is having to click-drag everything in order to set low/medium/high frequency... though to be fair, setting notes in Scalewalker also involves click-dragging.

I also have a vst2 of Stochas - can't find a version number, but seem to have installed it in August of this year, not sure if that's more/less recent than what you've got.

rav
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Re: new pvst beta (updated 2-Jul-2020)

Post by rav »

tinga wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:09 pm
rav wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 10:04 pm
Or maybe someone can build VST2 version, beacause there are sources for download?
I have a vst2 version, but Stochas is not Magic, Magic is designed for Buzz and has a better ergonomic, and many more options, same thing for Snowglobe's machines, anyway if you want it...
Yes, please - I would like to try it a little bit more :)
Yeah, IX Magic, snowglobe ScaleWalker, wde machines, patternXP mod - this is why iam still Buzzing!

polac
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Re: new pvst beta (updated 27-Dec-2020)

Post by polac »

Bump for update.

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Joachip
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Re: new pvst beta (updated 27-Dec-2020)

Post by Joachip »

I'm continuing my wrongly titled thread in here, as it seems relevant. The problem with loading a bmx and some VSTs not recalling their parameter states correctly seems to be well known across different DAWs.

Here are some horribly crappy "solutions" which includes a race condition:
https://forum.juce.com/t/cubase-calling ... n/21637/14

But it hints at something: That it matters in which order these various calls are made.

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HerrFornit
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Re: new pvst beta (updated 27-Dec-2020)

Post by HerrFornit »

Hi polac,

thanx for the new version. It solved the x64GUI bug here. I have noticed that "since" installing this new version the "TT Tischmeyer dynamic range meter" I often use for levelling (to Jeskola AUX Send) does not work correctly (No metering in the GUI). It is 32bit. version. Strange, that this happens not in all songs. (I use a 64 bit VST in this song) When I check the option in the edit menu of PVST "run in separate process" it works. Perhaps its related to the new PVST version?
TT.jpg
TT.jpg (55.36 KiB) Viewed 2053 times

River Cricket
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Re: new pvst beta (updated 27-Dec-2020)

Post by River Cricket »

Here's a picture of what I'm talking about with WDM vs ASIO, and how the resulting Polac Audio In machines look in a project.
Attachments
polac asio vs polac wdm.png
polac asio vs polac wdm.png (58.55 KiB) Viewed 1911 times

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Buzztler
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Re: new pvst beta (updated 27-Dec-2020)

Post by Buzztler »

As always I'm the guy who complains about the fact that the version number has not been updated inside the polac-loaders. It still shows Version number 34 and not 35 As it should be now.
Perhaps you find the time to update the version number in the near Future?
This would bei fine.
Keep up the good work, 'cause Buzz needs the superb VST-loader. Bleib gesund!

Edith: Well, Polac "Sir", to my surprise I have been able to solve the missing version number update for my needs. So please, forget about my wish for an update of these numbers by you ...

Looks definately nice ...

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Candle
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Re: new pvst beta (updated 27-Dec-2020)

Post by Candle »

Not sure if I'm just doing this wrong or if there's setting I've missed somewhere (tho, I did look through the Settings Window as well as all the Preferences Windows & the Attributes). Maybe someone can help me figure this out.

So I've got PVST loading the Mobius VST 2 Looper. I've had PVST learn Mobius' parameters (i.e. "Learn All Params" in the Learn Menu). I'm trying to control Parameter 5 (x0005 - Select Track) via IX Magic (or even Peer Control if I had to go that route). I have pedals on my MIDI foot controller that cycle through various IX Patchbay routings (a bunch of FX chains) which are then routed into Mobius to be looped (each on a seperate channel - Mobius has up to 8 Input & output channels). Each of the 8 tracks in Mobius are configured to correspond to each of the 8 ins & outs. So what I want to do is add a second Peer Control Event in Magic for each Patchbay change that will change the selected track in Mobius to correspond to the FX chain selected. Seems simple enough. But what I've found is that PVST's Parameter Value is a Hex Percentage (i.e. x0000 = 0% & 7FFF = 100%). The Select Track parameter goes from 1 to 8 in PVST's Parameter List (F3). The only way to seem to change this value is to set the Parameter Value to 100% (7FFF) - which then steps through each Slected Track setting (i.e. 1 then 2 then 3 then… &c…). What I would like is to be able to select a particular track via the Peer Control command in Magic (e.g. if I currently have Track 1 seclected, I want to be able to jump to Track 5 and then maybe back to Track 2). Is there a way to have PVST's Parameter Value accept particular values & not a percentage value? Is there a setting somewhere to switch it from hex percent to just hex? Or is there another way to get this to work?

As always, thanks in advance for helping me figure this out.

See You In The Shadows…

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IXix
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Re: new pvst beta (updated 27-Dec-2020)

Post by IXix »

Candle wrote:
Tue Mar 23, 2021 5:36 pm
What I would like is to be able to select a particular track via the Peer Control command in Magic
You should be able to just use percent values to select the right track. Might need a bit of experimentation to find the right values but it should work fine. I don't have that VST to test but I can't see why it wouldn't work.

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HerrFornit
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Re: new pvst beta (updated 27-Dec-2020)

Post by HerrFornit »

Just wanna note a marginal old observation concerning probably to all of us, daring that it has been mentioned here before. After opening a VST in an unaltered song, buzz marks it with an asterix "*" at the end of the file name as "changed". Of course without touching any button.

(Another observation is, that by closing VST windows (when serveral GUIs are opened) the focus of windows changes and the buzz window disappears into the background until all open GUIs are closed.)

Perhaps you have this. too :)

River Cricket
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Re: new pvst beta (updated 27-Dec-2020)

Post by River Cricket »

It seems the Preset Factory does not work with VST3. Confirmed this on a fresh install.

Reproduction:
1. Load a VST3
2. Menu: Presets > Preset Factory ...
3. Click "Randomize"

Exactly what happens varies slightly from machine to machine (Arturia V Collection machines will switch to the randomized preset for a split-second, then immediately reload whatever preset it had open before the randomization; Dexed will only change the current cartridge bank and occasionally change the envelope display for operators 5 and 6, but never tweaks any other settings or even the dials for operators 5 or 6, and it always stops sending audio - GUI is still responsive, but it'll never sing again).

Both Dexed and V Collection machines behave as expected in their VST2 versions - properly randomized.

I've tried pretty much everything:
  • ASync Automation
  • Disable VST CC's
  • Sync Process/SetProgram/EditOpen
  • Fixed Blocksize
  • Run Buzz as Administrator
  • Set VST.x64.exe to run as Administrator (this will actually just hang Buzz unless Buzz also runs as Administrator)
  • Tried placing a VST2.4 .DLL in my \Common\VST3\ folder, in case this was some weird permissions issue - Randomizing the VST2.4.DLL worked fine
  • Completely fresh install of Buzz, PVST, and Dexed on a different machine
It seems like it's something endemic to the VST3 standard itself, where it's VST2.4 "enough" that whatever underlying code PVST uses to randomize the presets still works (since V Collection presets do end up randomized briefly, and Dexed will occasionally tweak a couple of settings), but then it gets a hold of its senses and realizes "wait, I'm VST3, I'm supposed to be a total pain in the ass, aren't I" and reverts to its previous state, which bricks Dexed and causes V Collection to automatically roll back.

At the same time, though, VST3's are fine with letting PeerCtrl tweak their settings - it's just something about the way Preset Factory changes their settings which makes them say "nuh-uh, nope, not havin' it". I guess if it were possible to load the Assignment Settings window in a version of PeerCtrl loaded in PVST, one could load PeerCtrl in PVST, spend a few hours setting up all the Assignment Settings, then Preset Factory the PeerCtrl-within-a-PVST chained to a VST3, but... uh, geez, I can think of better ways to spend an afternoon. :shock:

EDIT:

The VST3 version of Dexed is messed up in ALL hosts. However, V Collection and other VST3s behave as expected when using Cakewalk to randomize their presets.

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Joachip
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Re: new pvst beta (updated 27-Dec-2020)

Post by Joachip »

Buzztler wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:12 pm
Edith: Well, Polac "Sir", to my surprise I have been able to solve the missing version number update for my needs. So please, forget about my wish for an update of these numbers by you ...
Mine still shows 34 even though I just installed build 35, making me wonder if the old dll is still lingering somehere.

What was the solution?

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Buzztler
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Re: new pvst beta (updated 27-Dec-2020)

Post by Buzztler »

@ Joachip: in the tradition of the old buzz and personal use only, just one word: Resourcehacker... :mrgreen:

polac
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Re: new pvst beta (updated 29-May-2021)

Post by polac »

Bump, new update available. I did work on the vst3 wrappers as of late. Attention, you have to rescan the vst3shell dlls at first again!

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Re: new pvst beta (updated 29-May-2021)

Post by polac »

It seems the Preset Factory does not work with VST3. Confirmed this on a fresh install.
Hmm, some vst3s are working with preset factory at least. I just tested them here with Surge and Invader 2 by ephonic. Ok I have to check Dexed then :).
Mine still shows 34 even though I just installed build 35, making me wonder if the old dll is still lingering somehere.

What was the solution?
Yeah forgot to update the build number in the source code, also with the latest update. Here i only changed the vst3shell stuff and didn't touch the pvst sources.

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