Need some way to line up two wav's visually

Post Reply
synthphase
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:57 pm

Need some way to line up two wav's visually

Post by synthphase »

I always thought this was a major drawback to buzz and figured it's pointless to mention it as most people are either less lazy then me or doing stuff that doesn't require a DAW. What is the general consensus on the feasibility of haveing a few DAW features? For example, lining up two wav's from different mics to eliminate phase is so much easier to do visually. Is it as easy as pure WPF?

User avatar
Joachip
Posts: 314
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Need some way to line up two wav's visually

Post by Joachip »

I don't think it's realistic to turn Buzz into a tiny DAW as there are noone to implement these features, and the whole framework seems incompatible with this approach. My best suggestions is to have a normal DAW on the side, something like Cubase, Samplitude, Logic or similar.

Even my automation idea seems like something we probably won't ever see.

mridlen
Posts: 403
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:55 am
Contact:

Re: Need some way to line up two wav's visually

Post by mridlen »

Using the Audio Track plugin, I change the dropdown in song view to 1 and line it up visually. However, that's not something you can really do at the pattern level.

User avatar
HerrFornit
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:27 pm
Location: Steinberg UR12, AKG 702, Old Hi-Fi, A-49, PC: Xeon 1230v3 8GB, Win10x64pro, Buzz 1503x86
Contact:

Re: Need some way to line up two wav's visually

Post by HerrFornit »

Ah yes, good question. I check out mridlen's way with audio track :)

User avatar
mcbpete
Posts: 320
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:45 pm

Re: Need some way to line up two wav's visually

Post by mcbpete »

Joachip wrote:Even my automation idea seems like something we probably won't ever see.
Didn't see this first time around but man that'd be good ! Definitely a feature of 'conventional' DAWs that I miss having in Buzz - So much so I was nearly tempted to get Renoise the other day as it seemed to be the only tracker offering such a thing ...

wde
Posts: 154
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:28 am

Re: Need some way to line up two wav's visually

Post by wde »

This is kind of related. I recently started an audio project where I need to mix long audio recordings with "regular" Buzz composition/notation sequences. There are couple of issues with this:
  1. You need to edit the beginning of the audio recording carefully so that it perfectly syncs with the rest of the song.
  2. You need to start to play the song from the place where the sampler triggers the sample note. This means you can't really start to play at any part of the sequence since the long recording would not get triggered/played.
You can use machines like Audio Track, but for me it was too complicated for the task and I would not know what to do with the C++ code (it is also from the MDK era).

So why not use C# and do it yourself? I'm a bit surprised how far I got. How it works:
  1. Load audio files to Buzz Wavetable
  2. Create bunch of patterns.
  3. Open Audio Block GUI.
  4. Link patterns to samples.
  5. Place patterns to sequencer view.
  6. Press play. Pattern box ceiling marks the beginning of sample.
  7. If audio is not syncing perfectly then either edit the audio in Wavetable view or use the offset parameter to do fine tuning.
AudioBlock.png
AudioBlock.png (45.66 KiB) Viewed 3004 times
The nice thing here is that the sample starts to play from the correct position - the only requirement is that the "horizontal play position line" needs to cut the pattern that is linked to sample in Audio Block machine. ...but no fancy graphics on top of the pattern box.

Here is the dev stuff and we are not too far guys. If it is easy for Oskari to add these then any developer can add what ever functionality (like maybe automation) to the visual machine pattern box:
  • C# API to to get the surface to draw on the machine pattern in sequencer view.
  • C# API to receive mouse/pointer events when user interacts with the pattern in sequencer view.
This would allow me to draw the audio wave visuals and allow user to interact with it. The devil is in the details though and to enable these it might require a bit of rewriting the sequencer view.

Btw. Buzz forums look much nicer now.

User avatar
IXix
Posts: 851
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:24 pm

Re: Need some way to line up two wav's visually

Post by IXix »

@wde nice! :dance:

User avatar
HerrFornit
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:27 pm
Location: Steinberg UR12, AKG 702, Old Hi-Fi, A-49, PC: Xeon 1230v3 8GB, Win10x64pro, Buzz 1503x86
Contact:

Re: Need some way to line up two wav's visually

Post by HerrFornit »

@wde
WOW! :o Something is going on...
Hope some programmers join you ;) /I would like to, but nobody shows me how to :lol: )

In the meanwhile I use a sample-delay plugin/machine inserted in line before matilde or audiotrack and listen by ear (many times :? ). Matildes timeresolution with sample-offset is too rough for doing a fine-grained adjustment in all cases. And I don't want to use a sound editor beside so your approach is higly welcome! :)

wde
Posts: 154
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:28 am

Re: Need some way to line up two wav's visually

Post by wde »

The basics seem to work ok. Unzip to Gear\Generators.
Last edited by wde on Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
HerrFornit
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:27 pm
Location: Steinberg UR12, AKG 702, Old Hi-Fi, A-49, PC: Xeon 1230v3 8GB, Win10x64pro, Buzz 1503x86
Contact:

Re: Need some way to line up two wav's visually

Post by HerrFornit »

great! thanx,

I tried it. I can load the machine and the samples into the patterns without problems. Sound is good. :)
Playing a sample in parallel in 2 instances of audioblock let both instances crash. Buzz needs to be restarted then.
I am not sure if the offset works as it should?. I can cut only a short part of the sample (max 20000 is it samples?).

wde
Posts: 154
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:28 am

Re: Need some way to line up two wav's visually

Post by wde »

HerrFornit wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:42 pm
Sound is good. :)
I do linear conversion if sample frequency is not matching host frequency. Just make sure sample matches host freq or it is half/double to maximize sound quality :)

Managed to fix one crash bug. The offset is more aggressive with this version.
Last edited by wde on Fri Feb 28, 2020 1:22 pm, edited 4 times in total.

User avatar
IXix
Posts: 851
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:24 pm

Re: Need some way to line up two wav's visually

Post by IXix »

Very cool. Managed to crash it pretty quickly but don't have steps to repro. Also got some very interesting noises when I tried seeking past the end of the audio but still with the pattern. This is going to be a great machine though! :dance:

wde
Posts: 154
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:28 am

Re: Need some way to line up two wav's visually

Post by wde »

Argh. I truly messed up the code while trying to fix one bug :shock:

Please download again.

User avatar
IXix
Posts: 851
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:24 pm

Re: Need some way to line up two wav's visually

Post by IXix »

wde wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:27 pm
Please download again.
Seems much happier now but I still managed to crash it by replacing a sample that was in use. :D

So simple to use though, could be a bit of a game changer! Do you think it might be feasible to drop a file onto the machine window and have it magically load into the wavetable and create a pattern the same length as the audio? That would be amazing.

wde
Posts: 154
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:28 am

Re: Need some way to line up two wav's visually

Post by wde »

IXix wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:43 pm
Do you think it might be feasible to drop a file onto the machine window and have it magically load into the wavetable and create a pattern the same length as the audio? That would be amazing.
Excellent idea. Uploaded new version. The good:
  • Drag & Drop to empty wave slot in Audio Block done.
  • Auto create correct size pattern done.
  • Auto load to wavetable done.
The bad:

There is still a crash bug and I can't seem to figure it out. Happens when you create more than one instance of Audio Block and it seems to be related to Wavetable. Basically changing index of target sample wave in machine 1 causes issues with machine 2 when accessing wavetable. Maybe someone could take a look?

Edit. Maybe accessing Wavetable from Work() is not the best thing to do. Instead fill temporary buffer from MasterTap()?

User avatar
HerrFornit
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:27 pm
Location: Steinberg UR12, AKG 702, Old Hi-Fi, A-49, PC: Xeon 1230v3 8GB, Win10x64pro, Buzz 1503x86
Contact:

Re: Need some way to line up two wav's visually

Post by HerrFornit »

Tried your new version.

Perhaps you can isolate the bug a bit: Crash here occurs only when I copy the first instance (incl. samples) and then play the same pattern in parallel as a song. Both instances crash. Restart of buzz needed.
It does not occur when I load a new instance of audioblock and load the samples again and then play as parallel as a song ! (the drag and drop is awesome man!! great idea IXix).

Offset works! A little help would be to limit the offset-values to max length of the sample (always 20000..2000 ??). Its a bit confusing when you enter a high value and here nothing (of course logical If you know the end .. ;) )


EDIT: Ok, I have seen now, that in second case (s.o.) it loads the samples in the next slots, that's why it doesn't crash, cause its not the exact same sample!

EDIT2: A minor issue: Overwriting a sample by drag and drop does not adjust the pattern-lenght.

User avatar
IXix
Posts: 851
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:24 pm

Re: Need some way to line up two wav's visually

Post by IXix »

wde wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:09 pm
Excellent idea. Uploaded new version...
Wow, that was fast! :lol:

Not going to have much opportunity to test for a few days but I'm looking forward to playing with this. Awesome work! :dance:

wde
Posts: 154
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:28 am

Re: Need some way to line up two wav's visually

Post by wde »

That was an awful crash bug but I think I crushed it.

Other stuff:
  • Auto update pattern length for all actions (change wave, drag & drop)
  • Can drag & drop to any slot
  • Tool tip for 'Offset' label.
  • Sequencer view gets updated immediately when pattern lengths change.

User avatar
HerrFornit
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:27 pm
Location: Steinberg UR12, AKG 702, Old Hi-Fi, A-49, PC: Xeon 1230v3 8GB, Win10x64pro, Buzz 1503x86
Contact:

Re: Need some way to line up two wav's visually

Post by HerrFornit »

you are so fast! 8-)

you got the bug! :dance:

I like the red warning of the offset exceeding.

I am still not sure about the unit of the offset (ms, samples, feed )? Can it also be a negativ delay ?

EDIT: minor issue: for me it would be more straight forward if the Audioblock0 pattern would be the actual 0 pattern. There is the 0.00 default pattern in addition:
patterns.jpg
patterns.jpg (2.75 KiB) Viewed 2758 times
EDIT2: Mouse wheel for offset?
Last edited by HerrFornit on Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
HerrFornit
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:27 pm
Location: Steinberg UR12, AKG 702, Old Hi-Fi, A-49, PC: Xeon 1230v3 8GB, Win10x64pro, Buzz 1503x86
Contact:

Re: Need some way to line up two wav's visually

Post by HerrFornit »

Next major update could be a recording option, directly into the pattern slot of audioblock? :?:

Post Reply