ReBuzz by WDE anybody knows anything?

lolokimono
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ReBuzz by WDE anybody knows anything?

Post by lolokimono »

Hi, lately, when trying to check whether a new version of BuzzSetup_x64_2022_Edition.exe, I also found that the website https://buzz.robotplanet.dk/ hosts a "very early stage .NET rewrite: ReBuzzSetup_2023_Edition.exe (19-Nov-2023)". I like this idea because it can be a breath of fresh air and bring even more modern features into Buzz (especially that it claims to be a rewrite). Hence, as I know WDE is hanging out on this forum (and maybe other developers as well), I would like to ask about this project (hopefully this still qualifies as a "Buzz question").

The credits thank many developers for contributions (unfortunately, they disappear before they roll to the end), so I would expect it's in some way open to contributions. Is it open source then? Does it have a public issue tracker? Is there an e-mail where I can contact the team? Are external contributions welcome (I know some .NET, though more from web applications, but maybe that could be of some help in minor issues)? Is there any kind of roadmap?
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HerrFornit
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Re: ReBuzz by WDE anybody knows anything?

Post by HerrFornit »

Hey!

thanx for that hint! I didnt know that download, what a surprise!

Thats really cryptic (as the new subtitle of this forum "Tekoäly AI musiikki", too ) . Perhaps wde is working in the hidden or he is oskari himself :lol: . I did not read any conttribution by him for a longer time, hmmm. I gave the ReBuzz Nov 2023 Version a try. It is widley oriented at the 2022 version but references are rewritten and prob more. You can set more then 12 cores active (can select the 16 threads, 4+8 cores here)
At least wde published the source code of his machines here in the forum. So you can have some hope for getting the code of ReBuzz, too. (?)

Hope wde will show up soon to open a feedback thread about it!
Screenshot 2023-12-27 165300.png
Screenshot 2023-12-27 165300.png (149.21 KiB) Viewed 2665 times
autrax
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Re: ReBuzz by WDE anybody knows anything?

Post by autrax »

Awesome ... some time ago I read a rumor about this in the Buzz fb group, but wasn't able to dig up any additional information; would be so cool if the development on this continues, the polished UI already looks good. For some reason, it doesn't show all my vst3 plugins (Synthmaster and Phoscyon2 are missing), even though I double-checked, that the configuration of the polac VST loader is the same as in the traditional Buzz ... strange ...
ekral
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Re: ReBuzz by WDE anybody knows anything?

Post by ekral »

I also read some rumors about this, and it looks great. It just does not show any of my VST3 plugins, and I have problems with the ASIO card on the notebook, but on PC, it was okay. I'm looking forward to a new version.
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HerrFornit
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Re: ReBuzz by WDE anybody knows anything?

Post by HerrFornit »

The new PVST beta v42 has a lot of vst3 improvements. Did you install it, too? Here it recognises my test vst3.
ekral
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Re: ReBuzz by WDE anybody knows anything?

Post by ekral »

HerrFornit wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2024 2:38 pm The new PVST beta v42 has a lot of vst3 improvements. Did you install it, too? Here it recognises my test vst3.
Yes I did, but no vst3 was found.
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HerrFornit
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Re: ReBuzz by WDE anybody knows anything?

Post by HerrFornit »

ekral wrote: Fri Jan 05, 2024 11:23 am
HerrFornit wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2024 2:38 pm The new PVST beta v42 has a lot of vst3 improvements. Did you install it, too? Here it recognises my test vst3.
Yes I did, but no vst3 was found.
Sorry, you are right. It was the vst2 version which showed up in ReBuzz. :oops:
Even extra adding the vst3 path didnt solve it.
lolokimono
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Re: ReBuzz by WDE anybody knows anything?

Post by lolokimono »

The new version that was recently released, detects VST3. One thing that's missing for me to have a proper playback of my buzz tracks is support for mute marker. Fingers crossed.
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Re: ReBuzz by WDE anybody knows anything?

Post by roxo »

mridlen
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Re: ReBuzz by WDE anybody knows anything?

Post by mridlen »

I am just a little bit excited. :shock:
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Buzztler
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Re: ReBuzz by WDE anybody knows anything?

Post by Buzztler »

Wow, sitting at midnight in my tiny "studio" and test the new Rebuzz-Build-01032024. First of all, I like it, even if it is build on .NET, which I don't like very much ... ;)
Thx to all the people involved, it is fantastic that you still develop "Jeskola Buzz" ...! You R :ugeek: !
So the following notes are just to let you know.

I tested some demo stuff I created in the former build, triggering some Polac VSTi via midi send and I had to activate "All" instead of the default "active editor" to get sound with the editor closed, but everything loaded fine. (I totally forgot that I once did it in the old new buzz ...) interesting, but not "buggy"

All Snowglobe-machines loaded without errors in build 1741 totally different to the whole bunch of errors in the latest Jeskola 64 Buzz build. Fine!

But Rebuzz finds Qsamo "missing". Strange, 'cause it is in the gen's folder. Also no reason to wonder about, cause Qsamo is integrated and therefore not in the gen'folder (only it's gui.dll is there)
Furthermore I get a lot of errors, when loading old Buzz files, saying something about incompatible data build 1500 and Pattern XP.

It seems as Polac Vst loads a bit faster, but I'm not sure.

ReBuzz AudioIn works with Asio driver, but has some "crackles", from time to time, even with higher latency rates, but in general it works, even if it still doesn't like Fretted Synth FreeAmp's 3.6 "Wah" Module (terribly distorted sound), same as in other New Jeskola Buzz Builds, except for example the latest "old Buzz" build, it has some clicks, but the sound is much better. I once had a very short dialog with Xlutop about that, so what goes wrong here, plugin or host.
Edit: Whatever other Virtual Input I use I get "crackling" noises all over the place after a few minutes of playing, as if there is still a problem with ASIO?!
Will "Polac" be involved in the ReBuzz Project? I'd like to see his ASIO stuff working again, perhaps with a stronger input possible, to get the old "Jeskola Input" feeling again?

Jeskola "Note Matrix" throws a very long errormessage saying something of a missing "Objektverweis", so it is not usable in my setup, it throws this error even, when I try to delete it by klicking on "x". Meanwhile I know this errormessage is almost useless to find the possible error(Also I can start Jeskola Live without errors, but if I want to delete it I also get an errormessage, and it stays in ReBuzz.)

Jeskola SineSynth and others, simply open as "dummy" (same for example with Jeskola Tracker).

So, perhaps my hints lead you to something that optimizes the ReBuzz-engine again, or you can give me hints, what's wrong in my setup ... or do I miss the SDK?

Btw the gear.xml has definately an interesting and impressive introduction

O.k., meanwhile I found out what "fb-group" stands, for so I won't get any response right here?! Would be nice if I'm wrong ;)
lolokimono
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Re: ReBuzz by WDE anybody knows anything?

Post by lolokimono »

I tested the new version 01-Mar-2024 today.

Finally the mute marker works and I could start playing some of my songs. Few issues I currently have:

1. The VST loading seems to have slowed down, especially the "Init machine" step. It takes several times longer to load a song that uses VSTs heavily.
2. A song I could play in original buzz causes audio hiccups every couple of seconds in ReBuzz. Overall it seems to me like a debug build and not release build.
3. F6 always plays the song from beginning, not from current cursor position.
4. Changing the Audio out to Direct Sound doesn't seem to work (instantly mutes audio). Switching back to anything hangs the app.
5. Direct sound output cannot be configured (I remember the playback used to work in previous version, but had a huge latency that could not be changed from the config menu)
6. ReBuzz always offers to save changes on exit even though I didn't change anything. I'm slightly afraid to save any of my songs yet but maybe I'll try creating a fresh song in ReBuzz to test the whole flow.
7. When I switch WASAPI to Exclusive mode, it goes full volume without being able to change it.

I eagerly await new builds. I wish the source code was available in some repo, maybe I could help with debugging, but seems like the devs prefer to have privacy 😉
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HerrFornit
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Re: ReBuzz by WDE anybody knows anything?

Post by HerrFornit »

Hi @buzztler, hi @lolokimono,

what OS do you use for your ReBuzz tests?
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Buzztler
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Re: ReBuzz by WDE anybody knows anything?

Post by Buzztler »

what OS do you use for your ReBuzz tests?


Hello "MrFornit",

I use Win10, 64Bit, Home 22H2, latest .Net Desktop Runtime (8.02) and latest VCR C++ (2015-2022), latest soundcarddriver with its own ASIO-Driver, also tested to run under Win 11 by the manufacturer

Thx for asking ... I'll wait for Win 12 with buying new hardware ;)

Edit: It seems strange to me, that in the latest build of Rebuzz March 01 2024 there is a totally outdated version of Pattern XP included 1500 if I'm right and not 1503, I don't know if this really was the developers intention?
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HerrFornit
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Re: ReBuzz by WDE anybody knows anything?

Post by HerrFornit »

Hi Buzztler,

thanx for your detailed answer. I use W11 here but dont find the time to test ReBuzz 010324 in the moment. As I can see WDE reads this in background so your answer is helpful anyway ;)
I am going to build a new PC with AMD APU 8700G and have an old W10 license laying around on any HDD. Thought that I make a dual boot system with W10 optimized for DAW ... and W11 for the rest, will see ...
PS: Hope W12 is released and stable 10/2025 :lol:
lolokimono
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Re: ReBuzz by WDE anybody knows anything?

Post by lolokimono »

I am using Windows 11 on a laptop with i-7 10875H CPU.

I am attaching 2 screenshots of CPU meter after loading my song. This one is from the Buzz 64 bit from 21-Mar-2023
s1.png
s1.png (131.3 KiB) Viewed 744 times
The next one is from ReBuzz. Somehow, the VSTs on ReBuzz are taking much more CPU even without playback being in progress. This uses the free to download Kilohearts plugins, so should be easy to check on another PC. Maybe it's audio settings because I am using Direct Sound on the original buzz but cannot configure it in ReBuzz.
S2.png
S2.png (188.44 KiB) Viewed 744 times
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HerrFornit
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Re: ReBuzz by WDE anybody knows anything?

Post by HerrFornit »

lolokimono wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2024 9:49 pm I am using Windows 11 on a laptop with i-7 10875H CPU.

I am attaching 2 screenshots of CPU meter after loading my song. This one is from the Buzz 64 bit from 21-Mar-2023

S1.png

The next one is from ReBuzz. Somehow, the VSTs on ReBuzz are taking much more CPU even without playback being in progress. This uses the free to download Kilohearts plugins, so should be easy to check on another PC. Maybe it's audio sitettings because I am using Direct Sound on the original buzz but cannot configure it in ReBuzz.

S2.png
Ah, nice comparsion, thanx.
Tbh, I am not sure if the older % are more realisitic, I always wondered about the low cpu usage in buzz. But this is more a feeling...
Did you play the same part of the same song for both figures? Anyway, you are going with W11, thanx for your reply :)
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UNZ
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Re: ReBuzz by WDE anybody knows anything?

Post by UNZ »

wild guess but this looks like a denormals issue: is rebuzz built with DAZ flag?
the other thing that looks very wrong is the lock time, suggesting that there is something suboptimal with multithreading.
these numbers are so far off that it could also just be a debug build?

anyway, i think its much too early for performance comparisons.
lolokimono
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Re: ReBuzz by WDE anybody knows anything?

Post by lolokimono »

anyway, i think its much too early for performance comparisons.
Agree, just wanted to highlight this as my hope is also that the developer maybe read this thread. Maybe it's something that can be easily fixed by changing build flags or audio settings when they are available? I have no idea, but I'm providing the information in good faith and hope it will be useful👍
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Re: ReBuzz by WDE anybody knows anything?

Post by UNZ »

lolokimono wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2024 10:12 pm 7. When I switch WASAPI to Exclusive mode, it goes full volume without being able to change it.
this is expected behavior because exclusive mode is a bit-perfect stream and does not go through windows mixer. it's like ASIO, your audio driver may or may not offer volume control for it at the audio interface level, but never windows. it is the correct and desired behavior for pro-audio. in return you get a stream which doesn't go through the stupid windows audio limiter or other stupid "enhancements" and potentially lower latency than shared mode (which should be around 10ms)
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