outro [critique requested]

[toothsoup]

Put this together over the last couple of days: http://soundcloud.com/toothsoup/outro

I was wondering if I could get some criticism/advice on how to disentangle myself from 'filling up' songs? Like, with this one I wanted to swap between a couple of leads, but I just couldn't figure out how to do that with the pads and shred lead being as they are, i.e. they fill up a lot of the range of the song, leaving not a lot of room for another instrument. In the end I just got frustrated and re-sequenced it so that it was just a slow build-up and decline, but I really want to have more in my bag-of-tricks than that. Should I have narrowed the pad down a bit to leave more room at the top for a higher frequency lead? Gah, I don't even know what I'm asking any more, and probably I'm not using the right terminology for referring to the instruments. Anyway, any thoughts v. much appreciated, I'm all about learning right now.

[bomgaroto]

Very nice idea. I don't know what kind of critique to give you, since you yourself are unsure about what you're asking for , but for me it would sound cool to have a more prominent kick instead of just the drum samples in different rhythmic variations. Your drum ideas are good, but without the kick it feels too diluted and the song feels sluggish/slow.

Regarding the pads, maybe you could try using a very slow fade in filter cut off so they start using very little bandwidht (allowing room for other things in the beginning without adding too much to song loudness), then slowly increasing it to a sort of climax where the song would have a fuller sound (pads taking up lots of bandwith together with the other stuff).

Finally, I like the chord progression very much. The distortion pads sound really nice.

Cheers!

[toothsoup]

Hey dude, thanks for your thoughts, it helps a lot. I'll give the cut-off a try, do you mean just a frequency cut-off like a low pass, or? Any suggestions for good filtering machines?

Thanks again, always helps to get someone else's perspective on things

[bomgaroto]

I checked the bmx file you made available at soundcloud (sorry, i hadn't taken a look at it before) and yes, this is what I meant. Moving the cutoff like you are already doing with the PeerCtrl machine. Sorry I missed that.

However, since you are using FSMInfector to synthesize, you could try controlling its own cutoff instead of adding that extra Green Filter for example. I usually try to use the least number of machines possible if they get the job done.

Also, for some dynamics, add a cheapo amp to control master volume for the infector and make a real fade in effect along with the cutoff; it sounds good too for intros and bridge passages.

I noticed you are taking the output from infector, splitting it to a green filter and a combo and then inputting these three back to the master. Is this necessary? I always try to stick to a single chain of effects between the generator and the master instead of doing this kind of parallel processing. For me a single chain usually makes things easier when it comes to controlling the amount of effect being applied to a signal source. Of course, it is nice to be able to process one signal in different paths at the same time, but I reckon a simple cascade of effects is generally easier to control. Also, I was thinking to myself here that you COULD end up eating up a lot of bandwidth with just one instrument this way, because of the several harmonics being produced in the side paths (e.g. the combo and the green filter) that could be passing unnoticed. Moreover, parallel processing directly to the master is usually not a good idea, since you have to mute several paths in order to get a single instrument muted when mixing for example.

Just thoughts and personal views, pal. Hope you find them helpful. I am learning here too.

I checked your other audio files at soundcloud. Very good. Keep buzzing!

Cheers!

[toothsoup]

Heya mate, cheers for the reply and the extra feedback

Yeah, I do have a tendency to overcomplicate machines, which leads to the weird chaining you've seen there. I should really keep myself to single, straight chains. I think I added those couple of extra ones in an attempt to narrow the 'bandwidth' as you call it (good term that one) and ended up just making it worse. I think the lesson here is probably the good ol' KISS (keep it simple, stupid).

I see Cheapo Amp a whole heck of a lot in other people's .bmxs, it really is just an amplifier, right? So you could just do the same thing with the Master pattern? I can only guess that it makes it easier to adjust it with the machine, but just curious as to whether there's a hidden way that people use it.

Awesome, this kind of feedback always makes me want to jump straight back in and start messing around again. And I'm gunna do that right now, cheers!

[bomgaroto]

Yes, you're right. That's exactly what cheapo amp does, it controls volume - up and down. Essential for dynamics. I don't think there is any secret way in using it, but if you learn some nifty trick about it, let me know.
You're right too, you could use the master volume for the same thing, but I reckon using a separate control gives you more flexibility when mixing. I usually leave the master for setting some fixed volume level for the instruments and use the cheapo amp for within song variations and individual control. I don't save machines here - for mixing, mastering, dynamics, eqs, compression, and all this sort of post-song production, more machines is generally desirable. For me, this is usually the hardest part of getting a song sound right.

Cheers!

[mute]

Gains in the modular world are just as utilitarian as they are a gain.

Cheapo Amp and Kibibu Stereo Gain as examples are often used in serial chaining where you want to keep the connection's amp/pan settings up to the 'ch.amp'/'gain' intact no matter how many times you disconnect or add to what comes after it in the chain. It's also there to drive a limiter or re-gain pre or post effect, etc. It's also used in a common triangle as a dry amount, with a second gain to control the amp of the over all chain's gain.

source-->effect--->'mix' gain---->
  \___>'dry' gain__/

There are countless reasons really. Some of them purely organizational/cosmetic. I use Kibibu Stereo Gain because its identical to ch.amp, with independant l/r controlls, but no midi mute. Why use a 'do-nothing' or something similar when I can have a stereo gain/pan there should I end up wanting it? Setups like this also let you feel safer about setting vol/pan settings using the connection handle settings prior to the gain machines, since you wont be deleteing them and trying something else out. That falls under Buzz-fu.

Not to mention stuff like

kick----------------------gain-->eq/fx-->compressor/limter>-----master
kick2--------------------/
snare-->reverb/fx----/
hat-------->fx---------/
hat2---->fx-->gain---/

[toothsoup]

Ah, I see now! That's really informative, both of you. And the triangles, that's a really great trick, I'll try and keep that in mind. Maybe could be the basis for an addition to the buzzwiki? I'm guessing that others would also be curious when opening up some of the .bmxs at buzztunes and seeing these amps everywhere. Although maybe I'm just thick and it makes immediate sense to most people ;P

[commadore65]

ta for putting your bmx up on soundcloud. I'll mess around with it as soon as i get back to my own computer and stop doing christmas family face.

Cheapo amp is just a volume.. have you used LD mixer? with the GUI it would probably help a lot, sometimes on my comp the gui doesn't come up tho =/..

[toothsoup]

ta for putting your bmx up on soundcloud. I'll mess around with it as soon as i get back to my own computer and stop doing christmas family face.

Cheapo amp is just a volume.. have you used LD mixer? with the GUI it would probably help a lot, sometimes on my comp the gui doesn't come up tho =/..

Take your time, I'm always intrigued to see what you come up with out of these remixes btw you still owe me interview answers!

LD mixer looks good, I just checked it out. I'll have a play once I've got my desktop set up again and not making my netbook cry

[mantratronic]

Maybe could be the basis for an addition to the buzzwiki? ... Although maybe I'm just thick and it makes immediate sense to most people ;P

there are no stupid additions to the wiki, get on it

christmas family face

i would but i would get 'd so i'll keep :|ing

[commadore65]

Is it cool to put up my suggestion/mix here?

@mantra Hah .. nah my chirstmas family face was pretending to be Panthro from Thundercats for a couple of hours, while battling evil with a 5 year old (who was Liono as he got the sword as a prezzie). He didn't have any nunchucks handy, so I was equipped with a plastic electronic drumstick as my weapon.. It had 3 jazzy battle beats included (actual stupid toy jazz numbers) that I could put on with different buttons depending on our current situation.

[toothsoup]

Is it cool to put up my suggestion/mix here?

I reckon that'd be a really good idea actually, that way maybe we can get a discussion going on what you've done (heaps), what's effective (all of it) and generally how cool it is that you do these things (very cool).

[commadore65]

Is it cool to put up my suggestion/mix here?

I reckon that'd be a really good idea actually, that way maybe we can get a discussion going on what you've done

MP3 - http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26937735/ts-out ... toofar.mp3

bmx version - http://dl.dropbox.com/u/26937735/ts-out ... imiter.bmx