SGrid1 having issues with copy/paste and templates? *solved*

[Dean]

edit: title is changed, original title - gear.xml Multithreading="False" does it really work?

I am asking this because there are certainly machines which I've set to Multithreading="False" (in gear.xml)
and they still won't behave normally (they will generate unwanted click n pops) until I switch to single thread cpu.
Before you start shooting the messenger with suggestions that this is brought upon myself with faulty codes,
even if I use the default gear.xml or the default suggestion of which machines to include, it still gives me the creeps.
(so, it's not my code which is the problem)

Main example is Sample grid, I used to use the machine in a ton of older tracks, and it can not handle multithreadin'.
But nomatter if it's in gear.xml as multithreading="False" it still will try to multithread, making an embarassment
of itself and leaving anyone who listens unhappy.

what to do ?

edit: the problem is sample grid 1 doesn't support loading from template or copy+paste in machines view,
so it won't matter if you add this line of code (if you want to use multi-threading).

[mantratronic]

It works here, what version of samplegrid are you using? Ixix's latest update?

[Dean]

It works here, what version of samplegrid are you using? Ixix's latest update?

I think I'm using the latest one available at buzzmachines.com, I may not know of any ixix update...!
could that be the source of my problems?

[IXix]

I updated SGrid2 because something inside it didn't like Vista/Win7 and screwed up drumkit file usage. SGrid2 itself was only ever available as a beta and so was mine. I made some other small alterations, including getting rid of static work buffers which are usually the source of multi-thread noise problems. The last build I made is available here: SampleGrid 2.0 BETA 0061110 Custom.

It looks like you're talking about SGrid1 though. The code for that is probably lost in the mists of time.

SGrid3 is on my embarrassingly long todo list.

[Dean]

I updated SGrid2 because something inside it didn't like Vista/Win7 and screwed up drumkit file usage. SGrid2 itself was only ever available as a beta and so was mine. I made some other small alterations, including getting rid of static work buffers which are usually the source of multi-thread noise problems. The last build I made is available here: SampleGrid 2.0 BETA 0061110 Custom.

It looks like you're talking about SGrid1 though. The code for that is probably lost in the mists of time.

SGrid3 is on my embarrassingly long todo list.

yes, sample grid 1, which I used for a lot of old songs back in the old days of buzz...
I appreciate your information, but I feel we're a bit off-topic though, why does the multithreadin'="false" not do any difference in the case of this machine?
(clearly changing setting to "single threadin'" will solve the problems created by the multi)

[mantratronic]

It could be due to static variables or hacks or any number of old coding practices.. Not worth the effort of looking through the code to find out which even if that code exists imo. If you really need to load those old songs, i would recommend running oldbuzz for them. It's simply impossible to support all old buggy machines, the best we can do is replace their functionality, like Ix has with sgrid2.

[Dean]

It could be due to static variables or hacks or any number of old coding practices.. Not worth the effort of looking through the code to find out which even if that code exists imo. If you really need to load those old songs, i would recommend running oldbuzz for them. It's simply impossible to support all old buggy machines, the best we can do is replace their functionality, like Ix has with sgrid2.

I see what you're getting at, but I'm trying to ask why the machine plays well in single thread use,
and makes a mess in multi-thread? (song plays fine using single thread setting in options)
Isn't the gear.xml line of code supposed to make able the use of a single-thread machine in multi-thread environment?
or why do we inser this line of code? Why do we make a blacklist (if it makes no difference)?

[mantratronic]

ahhh, sorry now i understand the question i think. in gear.xml you are keeping all of the specific machine instances (ie, all your sgrid1's) in the same thread, in settings you are keeping all of the buzz machines in the same thread. If sgrid1 is having problems the way you say, then it is needing information from other machine types/information to be in the same thread as itself.

[Dean]

ahhh, sorry now i understand the question i think. in gear.xml you are keeping all of the specific machine instances (ie, all your sgrid1's) in the same thread, in settings you are keeping all of the buzz machines in the same thread. If sgrid1 is having problems the way you say, then it is needing information from other machine types/information to be in the same thread as itself.

ah, I think I understand, thanks... I've stopped using samplegrid1 now so it was more out of curiosity this topic came up.

[mute]

I have no problems using SGrid1 (v1.21) with multithreading on, multiple connections to multiple machines, when using SGrid Out, etc.. not a single problem. It is more likely some other machine in your old song files causing issue. It doesn't like oversamplex2, but thats the only issue I've ever run across, ever. You CANNOT Copy&Paste or Clone SGrid, you need to start with a new instance... but we aren't talking about that in this thread. We're talking about "old" songs..

I just tested it with all the switch/byte versions, multiple instances at the same time, using straight & multiple SGrid Outs, on a netbook with a single core intel (xp), a laptop with a dualcore amd (xp), a laptop with a quad intel (7), and a pc with a quad amd (7). No difference.

Let's not start a false positive or bad rumor about a great machine.

[mantratronic]

whoops, i should have tested before speculating.

[UNZ]

You CANNOT Copy&Paste or Clone SGrid, you need to start with a new instance...

this comined with Need's (err i mean DEAN's) love for 500+ machines and i think we have solved this riddle

[mute]

in any case, the title of this thread is loco

[Dean]

I have no problems using SGrid1 (v1.21) with multithreading on, multiple connections to multiple machines, when using SGrid Out, etc.. not a single problem. It is more likely some other machine in your old song files causing issue. It doesn't like oversamplex2, but thats the only issue I've ever run across, ever. You CANNOT Copy&Paste or Clone SGrid, you need to start with a new instance... but we aren't talking about that in this thread. We're talking about "old" songs..

I just tested it with all the switch/byte versions, multiple instances at the same time, using straight & multiple SGrid Outs, on a netbook with a single core intel (xp), a laptop with a dualcore amd (xp), a laptop with a quad intel (7), and a pc with a quad amd (7). No difference.

Let's not start a false positive or bad rumor about a great machine.

Thank you very much for testing things out well! And for giving the solution to the problem! (not really, I now have a lot of work to do to sort things out, but I'm thankful you could bring me some information which I've never heard about before)
You're misunderstanding about copy+paste, I load Sample Grids through the template feature. But I'm happy to know that a lot of old songs are not affected by this problem, as I mainly used shortcut keys to load favorites in oldbuzz.
My comment about oldbuzz was mainly refering to the fact that I did use Sgrid a lot, but I don't use SGrid anymore and I gradually stopped using it because of some issues and I also discovered some things were easier to achieve with other machines.
I had no idea you couldn't oversample SGrid, it's a shame cause it doesn't seem to resample well in comparison to other machines:

http://btdsys.lazytrap.com/buzz-machine ... z-machines

this comined with Need's (err i mean DEAN's) love for 500+ machines and i think we have solved this riddle

no need to get cocky, the sample grids in question where imported via the template-feature.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who didn't know you can't use the template feature for certain machines.
I'm sure there are other users who would rather be adviced at first before getting bugs because "you need to start with a new instance".
If this feature is "broken" for some machines, it would have been great to read about it somewhere before it affects a lot of songs.
What other machines can't be made into templates?

[Dean]

in any case, the title of this thread is loco

I have now changed the title, so if anyone wants to contribute to this topic,
please let's share knowledge of which machines can't be made into templates
(or copy+pasted in machines view for that matter).

[mute]

Fixed the topic. Don't make definitive statements like that when facts are not known.

Also.. you're all over the place man. You need to make a better effort at isolating issues, and not making exaggerated statements (not working in old songs for ex.) in order to support a problem. It just makes figuring out the real issue more difficult. Don't mean that as a slight, just some advice.

[Dean]

Fixed the topic. Don't make definitive statements like that when facts are not known.

well, I don't need an answer to if Sgrid1 is having issues with copy/past and templates,
I think you perfectly well explained it yourself. It needs it's own instance.
What is of interest is however, if there are other machines which has problems if loaded from templates.
cause I use the templates feature a lot. But you're the boss so I'll just make another topic then.

[mute]

<Machine Name="BTDSys SampleGrid*" Multithreading="False"/>

fixes it.

[Dean]

<Machine Name="BTDSys SampleGrid*" Multithreading="False"/>

fixes it.

I don't understand... You where the person who provided the "real" reason for why this line of code doesn't help,
now you are suggesting it is the solution? this line of code, and I've tried using it for specific machine names (instead of *)
doesn't work to solve any of the problems we are talking about in this topic (as described in the opening post of this topic).

[mute]

I never said the entry didn't work, that was you. I hadn't finished troubleshooting it. I didn't finish until just a few seconds ago. Sorting a problem correctly takes work, not guessing.

As some insight, and besides the multi-computer/os/cpu-type thing i did earlier.. here's what I just finished doing:

I created a .bmx in old buzz using sgrid and sgrid out all over the place.

I turned off multithreading with the line above in gear.xml (<Machine Name="BTDSys SampleGrid*" Multithreading="False"/>)
I opened it in new Buzz, fine.

I imported it into new Buzz twice, fine.

I created a template with 5 Sgrids and several outs. I added it like 20 times, fine.

I saved it and reopened it, fine.

I changed all the pattern editors to PXP, saved it. Reopened it. fine.

I created another template. Added both the PXP one and the template made from the old buzz bmx. fine. Saved that, reloaded it. Fine.

I took the sgrid multithreading false option out of gear xml. Created a new project. Added 2 Sgrids and some Sgrid Outs. Saved it, reloaded it. Created it as template named "SGrid when threading was on". Closed Buzz, put the gear.xml setting back in to turn multithreading off again, opened Buzz. Added that template several times. Copied every instance of every machine, pasted it. Fine.

Problem solved: <Machine Name="BTDSys SampleGrid*" Multithreading="False"/>

Whenever you make changes to gear.xml, make sure to restart Buzz.

Another thread on templates isn't necessary because you're basing it on a problem that didn't exist in the first place. Let's not blow things completely out of proportion.